Холивар Raptor vs РД0164, Мюллер vs Рачук

[Старый]

Salo пишет: 
Поэтому Безос делает BE-4 на кислом газе, Мюллер резко переключился с дешёвых открытых керосинок на схему газ-газ, на SLS ставят RS-25 вместо RS-68, а китайцы с индусами резко клепают керосинки на кислом газе.

Дык и я говорю что в наше время замкнутая керосинка на кислом газе и умереном давлении дешевле и эффективнее чем открытой схемы. Скажи что я это не говорил.  :{}

[Старый]

sychbird пишет:
Болтало заболтало.  

Дык хороший повод!  :{}

[Старый]

KR пишет: 
студенты по 20 ракет в группе за месяц считают  
Старому видимо не довелось, завидно

Да, блин, я ж АОшник. Поэтому не довелось выбирать облик не только ракет но даже самолётов. Электромоторы - наш потолок.

[Старый]

Электромоторы мне были глубоко грустны, такого общего представления как о ракетах я о них не имел поэтому честно изобрёл свой моторчик строго по методичке.

[sychbird]

Старый пишет:
Профессор, ты как всегда прав с точностью до наоборот. Профессионалы не нуждаются в методичках, ибо они не нерадивые студенты. И успех приходит обычно какраз тогда когда проектант действует не по методичке.

Этот монолог из репертуара Незнайки :!:  Потому-то и все гениальные задумки про тризенит и прочее дальше форумных терок не идут

Лучше Дмитрия не скажешь, не буду и пытатся

[Salo]

Старый пишет:

Salo   пишет:
Как в эту методику вписывается Дельта-4?

Легко. Водород оказался самым освоеным горючим в США а водородный двигатель открытой схемы - самим дешовым и эффективным.

А результат самым дорогим из ныне летающих ракет.

[Salo]

http://www.ulalaunch.com/ula-blue-origin-BE-4-production-agreement.aspx?title=ULA+and+Blue+Origin+Announce+Production+Agreement+for+American-Made+BE-4+Engine

ULA and Blue Origin Announce Production Agreement for American-Made BE-4 Engine

Centennial, Colo. and Kent, Wash. – Sept. 10, 2015 – United Launch Alliance (ULA), the nation's premier space launch company, and Blue Origin, LLC, a privately-funded aerospace company owned by Amazon.com founder Jeff Bezos, announced today the signing of an agreement to expand production capabilities for the American-made BE-4 engine that will power the Vulcan next generation launch system.

The BE-4 engine offers the fastest path to a domestic alternative to the Russian RD-180. Development is on schedule to achieve qualification for flight in 2017 to support the first Vulcan flight in 2019.

"This agreement gets us closer to having an affordable, domestic and innovative engine that will help the Vulcan rocket exceed the capability of the Atlas V on its first flight and open brand new opportunities for the nation's use of space," said Tory Bruno, president and chief executive officer of ULA. "This partnership enables each company to leverage its strengths, with ULA bringing production excellence and mission assurance, and Blue Origin bringing innovative engineering concepts and a commitment to lowering the cost of spaceflight."

"The BE-4 engine test program is well underway with more than 60 staged-combustion tests already on the books," said Jeff Bezos, founder of Blue Origin. "This new agreement is an important step toward building BE-4s at the production rate needed for the Vulcan launch vehicle."

The Vulcan rocket brings together decades of experience on ULA's reliable Atlas and Delta vehicles, combining the best features of each to produce an all-new, American-made rocket that will enable mission success from low Earth orbit all the way to Pluto.  

The BE-4 is a liquid oxygen, liquefied natural gas (LNG) rocket engine that delivers 550,000-lbf of thrust at sea level. Two BE-4s would power each ULA Vulcan booster, providing 1,100,000-lbf thrust at liftoff.  ULA is teaming in the development of the BE-4 to enable availability for national security, civil, human and commercial missions. Development of the BE-4 engine has been underway for more than three years and testing of the BE-4 components is ongoing at Blue Origin's test facilities in West Texas.  

About United Launch Alliance
With more than a century of combined heritage, United Launch Alliance is the nation's most experienced and reliable launch service provider. ULA has successfully delivered more than 95 satellites to orbit that provide critical capabilities for troops in the field, aid meteorologists in tracking severe weather, enable personal device-based GPS navigation and unlock the mysteries of our solar system.

For more information on ULA, visit the ULA website at www.ulalaunch.com. Join the conversation at www.facebook.com/ulalaunch, twitter.com/ulalaunch, and instagram.com/ulalaunch.

About Blue Origin
Blue Origin, LLC (Blue Origin) is a private company developing vehicles and technologies to enable commercial human space transportation. Blue Origin has a long-term vision of greatly increasing the number of people that fly into space so that we humans can better continue exploring the solar system.  For more information and a list of job openings, please visit us at www.blueorigin.com.

[Salo]

Apollo13 пишет:
По наводке с НСФ. В Стенисе успешно протестирован полномасштабный окислительный ГГ Раптора

 http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/septemberlagniappe2.pdf

NASA-SpaceX testing partnership going strong
Lagniappe Magazine September 15, 2015

When SpaceX sought a partner to conduct testing for development of the company's ambitious Raptor rocket engine, its focus naturally fell on the versatile high-pressure test stands at NASA's Stennis Space Center.

In the spring of 2014, NASA and the company, which also had support from the Mississippi Development Authority and the Hancock County Port and Harbor Commission, officially launched a testing partnership with a ribbon-cutting at the E-2 Test Stand at Stennis. Stennis Director Rick Gilbrech characterized the collaboration as "opening new doors of commercial space exploration."

As the summer of 2015 draws to a close, the ongoing testing agreement is paying off. SpaceX completed a successful round of main injector testing in late 2014. Earlier this summer, the company and the E-2 Test Stand team achieved another milestone, completing a full-power test of the oxygen preburner component for the new engine.

Additional preburner testing has continued throughout the summer.

"This is a very exciting and unique partnership," explained NASA Project Manager Randy Holland, who manages the SpaceX test collaboration at Stennis. "Other test partnerships involve private companies that are funded from NASA, but this project is strictly private industry development for commercial use."

The company is developing a Raptor staged combustion engine to eventually power unprecedented flights to Mars. As envisioned, the methane-fueled engine will be one of the highest-performing in the world, said Jeff Thornburg, senior director of propulsion engineering for SpaceX.

 The article being tested is the first preburner component developed by SpaceX and the first full-scale component developed for the Raptor engine. Hitting the full-power mark in June was a major milestone.

"With a preburner, you're always focused on reliable ignition and proper temperature distribution for the pump turbines," Thornburg explained. "In this case, the test article and test facility performed very well. The two teams really have worked well together and are hitting their stride. This is just a great spot to do development testing."

 The preburner was installed on the E-2 stand in mid-April. By the end of August, SpaceX and the Stennis test team had conducted 76 hot fire tests on the component, totaling 399.36 seconds. "This is pure research and development testing," said Stephen Rawls, who is NASA test conductor for the project. "You focus on firing the article at a steady state and collecting performance data."

"There are not a whole lot of high-pressure test facilities around, and we wanted to find a site and team that were small and nimble," Thornburg noted. "Also, the interplay between the test article and test facility is no trivial matter; it must be right to ensure collection of good data. Considering all factors, Stennis is really the best spot for us to be."

Both Holland and Thornburg are optimistic about the partnership continuing with future testing projects. SpaceX has made it no secret that it hopes to launch humans to Mars during the 2020s. If that goal is achieved, Stennis will have played a key role in enabling the flights.

[Apollo13]

[Apollo13]

Я так понимаю Раптор примерно на год отстает от БЕ-4. Когда объявляли о контракте BO и ULA писали, что для БЕ-4 готов ГГ.

[freinir]

Дмитрий В. пишет:
Методика - это бокал, в который проектант наливает вино своего таланта! (Эх, как сказал!)

Так выбор основных проектных параметров до сих пор по коэффициентам проводят. Правда коэффициенты уже не линейные и сразу на численную баллистику уходят в оптимизацию.
Я в своё время "расшарил" маёвскую методичку (Мишинскую) до выбора оптимальных проектных параметров РН без численного интегрирования с учётом различных профилей тяги и ограничений. Точность получалась очень хорошей.

[Salo]

http://spacenews.com/blue-origin-reaches-milestone-in-be-4-engine-development/

Blue Origin Reaches Milestone in BE-4 Engine Development
by Jeff Foust — September 30, 2015

Testing of components of the BE-4 engine is in progress at Blue Origin's facilities in West Texas. Credit: Blue Origin photo
 
WASHINGTON — Blue Origin said Sept. 30 that it has completed more than 100 developmental tests of its BE-4 engine, which the company is building both for United Launch Alliance and its own vehicle.
The company said in a statement that the staged-combustion tests, performed at the company's test site in West Texas, provided "measurable performance data" about the engine for its upcoming critical design review. That data covered various elements of the engine's design and its manufacturing techniques, including the use of 3-D printing.
"We tested a number of injector element designs and chamber lengths at a variety of operational conditions," said Rob Meyerson, president of Blue Origin, in the statement. "Rigorous component testing ahead of full-engine testing significantly increases confidence in the development schedule and projected performance."
The BE-4 engine, under development by Blue Origin since 2011, uses liquefied natural gas and liquid oxygen propellants, and is designed to produce up to 550,000 pounds-force of thrust. The BE-4 will be the first large engine to use that propellant combination, although SpaceX has said it is working on a large engine called Raptor that uses the same propellants.
The company did not disclose a schedule for future development of the engine in its statement, and spokeswoman Julie Arnold declined to provide an estimated date for the engine's critical design review. In an April press briefing, Meyerson said full engine tests would take place in 2016, with the engine ready for service in 2017.
Blue Origin is developing BE-4 for the first stage of an orbital launch vehicle it announced during a Sept. 15 event at Cape Canaveral, Florida. Blue Origin plans to manufacture and launch that vehicle there, building facilities that include a test stand to carry out acceptance tests of the BE-4.
The BE-4 engine is also the leading candidate to be used in the first stage of ULA's Vulcan vehicle. Speaking to reporters after the Sept. 15 Florida event, Blue Origin founder Jeff Bezos said that while he was aware of competing engines for the Vulcan, like the AR-1 under development by Aerojet Rocketdyne, he was focused on completing the BE-4. "We're going to build the best 21st century engine that we can for ULA," he said. "Ultimately they will make the decision about what they want to do."
Bezos also noted that, unlike the AR-1 or other concepts, Blue Origin was not seeking funding from the U.S. Air Force to help pay for development of the BE-4. "The most unique feature of the BE-4 engine is that it's fully funded," he said. "It's not something you see in rocket engine programs very often."

[Salo]

https://twitter.com/blueorigin/status/659884423425318912

Blue Origin ‏@blueorigin  
BE-4 team: Nice job on today's Critical Design Review. Making progress on America's ride to space! #VulcanRocket  
 

[Salo]

http://www.businessinsider.com/all-about-blue-origins-be-4-engine-2015-12

There's a key 3rd player in the fight between Jeff Bezos' Blue Origin and Elon Musk's SpaceX that could be a game-changer  
          
               
Jessica Orwig
Dec. 2, 2015, 2:38 PM             

Business Insider

Right now, America is in the midst of a space race between competing private spaceflight companies owned by brilliant billionaires.
The prize is a chance to make history by being the first to usher in a new era of reusable rockets that can reduce the cost of spaceflight and, ultimately, land humans on Mars and then re-launch them back home.
Currently leading the way are Blue Origin — founded by Jeff Bezos — and SpaceX — founded by Elon Musk.
At the moment, SpaceX is ahead with its fleet of Falcon 9 rockets, but Blue Origin recently completed a test that shows it means business and could become a serious competitor in the next three years.

Спойлер

An important business venture

Key to both companies are the monster engines that power their rockets. And on Nov. 24, Blue Origin proved, for the first time, that they can successfully build, launch, fly, and retrieve the BE-3 engines that give life to their New Shepard space vehicle.

Uploaded by Numéro 1963 to WikipediaThe Delta IV Heavy, one of four of ULA's current launch vehicles.

Perhaps most excited about the flight — besides Blue Origin — is the United Launch Alliance (ULA), which has a lot invested in Bezos' spaceflight company. 
"We are very happy for Blue's success last week which demonstrates Blue's technical capabilities and commitment to spaceflight," ULA told Business Insider over email. 
Formed in 2006, ULA is a launch service provider under the joint venture between Lockheed Martin Space Systems and Boeing Defense, Space & Security.
For years, they've cornered the market on US government launches, but SpaceX's low-cost services and impending reusable capabilities has recently challenged that.
So, earlier this year, ULA selected rising SpaceX competitor Blue Origin to build the next generation of monster BE-4 engines to power the Vulcan rocket, which they are currently gathering funding for development. 
"Our Vulcan rocket with BE-4 engines will fly in 2019," ULA told Business Insider. "Our baseline plan is for the Vulcan booster to fly with two, BE-4 engines each, but ULA is also carrying Aerojet Rocketdyne's AR-1 engine as a backup."

Blue Origin vs. SpaceX engines

Blue Origin has not yet flown its BE-4 engines (shown below). However, it recently completed its 100th ground test, calling the test series "a key milestone" in the engine's development. And it plans to have the engine ready for flight by 2017. 
Blue Origin
While the BE-4 engine is of a different design than the less powerful BE-3 engine that flew on Nov. 24, the flight's success is a testament to Blue Origin's spaceflight abilities.
In addition, the BE-4 engines will each generate 550,000 pounds of thrust — the propulsive force a rocket uses to get to space. In comparison, each of SpaceX's latest, upgraded Merlin engines, which power the Falcon 9 rocket (and are shown below) generate 170,000 pounds of thrust.

Uploaded by Craigboy on Wikipedia

The ULA Vulcan rocket will be what is called a heavy-launch vehicle, capable of ferrying extremely heavy loads into space — a task that requires an enormous amount of rocket engine power.
Strapped with two BE-4 engines, it will launch with 1.1 million pounds of thrust and carry payloads of up to 17.3 metric tons (38,000 pounds) to low-earth orbit — where rockets go to transport payloads to the International Space Station.
By comparison, SpaceX's next-generation heavy-launch vehicle, the Falcon Heavy, will use essentially three Falcon 9 rockets strapped together. Each Falcon 9 contains 9 Merlin engines.
The Falcon Heavy is currently under construction at SpaceX and will generate 3.96 million pounds of thrust and lift up to 117,000 pounds into low-earth orbit. Its first demo flight, which was supposed to take place this year, was re-scheduled for spring 2016.

Race to reusability

SpaceX on FlickrSpaceX Falcon 9 rocket attempting to land earlier this year.

Ultimately, the price of launching materials, and eventually people, on these rockets will largely depend on one thing: Whether or not they can be reused.
Both Blue Origin and SpaceX have demonstrated that their BE-3 and Merlin engines can be flown to recover a rocket after launch. 
However, neither company has yet to launch an orbital rocket to space — one capable of transporting payloads to low-earth orbit — and retrieve it.
This is the next big step.
And SpaceX will try its next attempt to overcome that hurdle this month. As for Blue Origin, its next major move will be to send a rocket into orbit — higher than where it has currently flown.
Right now, the company is working on upgrades to its BE-3 engines and testing its BE-4 engines to accomplish this.

[свернуть]

[garg]

Salo, Эмм, я фигею. В статье так нагло перевирают все что могут. У них Мю выше 6% . Ракета с стартовой тягой в 480-500 тонн поднимает на НОО 17,3 тонны, а по ссылочке такую тяжесть тащит только модификация со стартовой массой в 667 тонн.
Беззастенчивая ложь и жонглирование цифрами.      

[Seerndv]

- и, кстати, кто третий -то?

[Salo]

На наклонение МКС и того меньше - 9,7т.

[Leonar]

а рд180мс с восстановительным газом в тна?

[Salo]

С кислым.

[silentpom]

Leonar пишет:
а рд180мс с восстановительным газом в тна?

все замкнутые керосинки с кислым