"Чанъэ-4" (Chang'e-4), посадочный аппарат и луноход – CZ-3B – Сичан (XSLC) – 07.12.2018, 18:24 UTC

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tnt22

ЦитироватьJonathan McDowell‏Подлинная учетная запись @planet4589 2 ч. назад

Chang'e-4 confirmed in 200 x 420000 km orbit on the way to Luna. Should reach lunar orbit around Dec 11. Landing in the South Pole -Aitken Basin (SPA to its friends) scheduled for Jan 4.

tnt22

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-12/08/c_137659328.htm
ЦитироватьXinhua Headlines: China launches Chang'e-4 probe to shed light on moon's dark side
Source: Xinhua | 2018-12-08 13:56:56 | Editor: Yang Yi

by Xinhua writers Yu Fei, Quan Xiaoshu, Hu Zhe

XICHANG, Dec. 8 (Xinhua) -- China's Chang'e-4 lunar probe was launched in the early hours of Saturday, and it is expected to make the first-ever soft landing on the far side of the moon.

A Long March-3B rocket, carrying the probe including a lander and a rover, blasted off from the Xichang Satellite Launch Center in southwest China's Sichuan Province at 2:23 a.m., opening a new chapter in lunar exploration.

Since the moon's revolution cycle is the same as its rotation cycle, the same side always faces the earth. The other face, most of which cannot be seen from earth, is called the far side or dark side, not because it's dark, but because most of it remains unknown.

The Chang'e-4 mission will be a key step in revealing the mysterious far side of the moon.

"The soft landing and exploration of the far side, which has never been done before, will gain first-hand information about the terrain and lunar soil components and other scientific data, which will help enrich our understanding of the moon and the universe," said Zhang He, executive director of the Chang'e-4 probe project.

The scientific tasks of the Chang'e-4 mission include low-frequency radio astronomical observation, surveying the terrain and landforms, detecting the mineral composition and shallow lunar surface structure, and measuring the neutron radiation and neutral atoms to study the environment on the far side of the moon, the China National Space Administration (CNSA) announced.

China has promoted international cooperation in its lunar exploration program, with four scientific payloads of the Chang'e-4 mission developed by scientists from the Netherlands, Germany, Sweden and Saudi Arabia.

Three scientific and technological experiments, designed by Chinese universities, will also be carried out during the mission.

DARK SIDE
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Nobody had ever seen the far side of the moon before the Soviet Union launched the Luna 3 probe in 1959, which was the first-ever mission to photograph the far side.

The United States Apollo 8 mission sent three astronauts to fly around the moon in 1968, the first time that people saw the moon's far side with their own eyes.

Remote-sensing images show the far side is thickly dotted with impact craters and has much fewer lunar mares than the near side. Scientists infer that the lunar crust on the far side is much thicker than the near side. But why so is still a mystery.

"As no astronauts or rovers have ever landed on the far side, we know little about it except for speculation based on remote-sensing images," Zhang said.

Astronomers are also seeking a completely quiet electromagnetic environment to detect the weak signals emitted from remote celestial bodies in deep space.

The far side is such a place, as the body of the moon shields against radio interference from the earth. From there, astronomers can study the origins and evolution of stars and galaxies, peering into the dawn of the universe.

The low-frequency radio astronomical observation will be one of the major scientific goals of the Chang'e-4 mission, said Zhang.
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CHALLENGES
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Scientists hope to land the probe in an area with many geological features such as the transition zone between highlands and basins to get more scientific information.

But engineers worry about the safety of the landing and the rover, and are searching for relatively flat areas.

After careful analysis, the experts chose the Von Karman Crater, named after a Hungarian-American mathematician, aerospace engineer and physicist, in the Aitken Basin, as the landing site.

The region is believed to have great research potential, and is at a similar latitude to the landing site of Chang'e-3. The sunlight there can ensure the probe's energy supply.

However, the chosen landing area for Chang'e-4, which is a smaller crater within a larger crater, is much narrower than the landing site of Chang'e-3, and the terrain is more rugged, posing great challenges for the landing, said Wu Xueying, deputy chief designer of the probe.

"So the landing accuracy of Chang'e-4 must be higher than Chang'e-3," Wu said.

In addition, landing and roving on the far side of the moon requires a relay satellite to transmit signals.

China launched the relay satellite "Queqiao", meaning Magpie Bridge, on May 21 to set up the communication link between the earth and the moon's far side.

The satellite has successfully entered a halo orbit around the second Lagrangian (L2) point of the earth-moon system, about 455,000 km from the earth. It is the world's first communication satellite operating in that orbit, said Zhang Lihua, chief designer of the satellite from the China Academy of Space Technology.

In orbit, the relay satellite can "see" both the earth and the far side of the moon. The earth's and moon's gravity balances the orbital motion of the satellite and makes it very fuel-efficient.

A test on the satellite in November showed that it is in good condition, said Zhang.
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VISITORS FROM CHINA
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Named after Chinese moon goddess "Chang'e", China's lunar exploration program, which began in 2004, includes orbiting and landing on the moon, and bringing samples back to earth.

The country's first lunar probe, Chang'e-1, was launched in 2007, making China the fifth country to develop and launch a lunar probe on its own.

Chang'e-2, launched in 2010, created a full lunar map with a resolution of 7 meters, as well as images of the Sinus Iridum, or the Bay of Rainbows, with a resolution of 1.5 meters, showing the details of the proposed landing site of Chang'e-3.

After accomplishing its tasks, Chang'e-2 flew to the L2 point of the sun-earth system about 1.5 million km from earth to conduct scientific experiments. It was then tasked to fly by and observe the Toutatis asteroid, about 7 million km from the earth, and continued its journey into deep space.

Chang'e-3, launched in 2013, was the first Chinese spacecraft to soft-land on and explore an extraterrestrial object. The scientific instruments on its lander are still operating, making Chang'e-3 the longest working man-made probe on the moon.

China launched an experimental spacecraft in 2014 to test technologies to be used on Chang'e-5, which is expected to bring moon samples back to earth. The spacecraft re-entered the earth's atmosphere at a speed of about 11.2 km per second.

The lunar program ushered in a new era for China to explore the universe and peaceful utilization of space.
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(Xie Jiao also contributed to this story.)

zandr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGp7WySaVW4
ЦитироватьChang'e-4 lunar mission: lander and rover
SciNews
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGp7WySaVW42:53China's Chang'e-4 lunar mission was launched by a Long March-3B rocket from the Xichang Satellite Launch Center, Sichuan Province, southwest China, on 7 December 2018, at 18:23 UTC (8 December at 02:23 local time). The Chang'e-4 (嫦娥四号) lunar mission (lander and rover) is scheduled to land in the Aitken crater, located in the Aitken Basin, in the South Pole region on the far side of the Moon.

tnt22

ЦитироватьJonathan McDowell‏Подлинная учетная запись @planet4589 1 ч. назад

Chang'e-4 and the rocket stage CZ-3B Y44 Stage 3 have been cataloged as 43845 and 43846, although as usual for deep space objects there are no TLEs associated with them


tnt22

ЦитироватьChina launches Chang'e-4, in attempt to be first in landing on far side of the Moon
CGTN

Опубликовано: 7 дек. 2018 г.

China successfully launched the Chang'e-4 lunar probe aboard a Long March 3B rocket at 2:23 a.m. BJT on December 8. With a lander and rover, its key mission is to explore the far side of the Moon, a side not visible from the Earth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxU75SDWy1shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxU75SDWy1s (0:56)


tnt22



tnt22

https://spaceflightnow.com/2018/12/07/china-launches-historic-mission-to-land-on-far-side-of-the-moon/
ЦитироватьChina launches historic mission to land on far side of the moon
December 7, 2018Stephen Clark

EDITOR'S NOTE: Upd ated at 7 p.m. EST (0000 GMT) with additional details on the mission.


A view of the far side of the moon and the distant Earth, captured by the service module for the Chang'e 5-T1 tech demo mission in 2014. Credit: Chinese Academy of Sciences

A robotic lander and rover lifted off Friday (U.S. time) fr om China's Xichang space center, kicking off a journey that will culminate in an attempt in early January to touch down on the far side of the moon for the first time.

The Chang'e 4 mission — the fourth in China's main line of lunar explorers — lifted off at 1823:34 GMT (1:23:34 p.m. EST) Friday fr om Xichang, an inland spaceport nestled between hills in southwestern China's Sichuan province.

Chang'e 4 climbed into the night sky at Xichang — liftoff occurred at 2:23 a.m. Beijing time Saturday — toward the east affixed to the top of a Long March 3B rocket.

Chinese state television did not broadcast the launch live, as it did for China's previous lunar mission launch in December 2013, but spectators near Xichang streamed live video of the middle-of-the-night blastoff online without commentary. The video showed the Long March 3B disappearing into the night sky a few minutes after an apparently smooth liftoff fr om Xichang.

The three-stage Long March 3B rocket injected the Chang'e 4 spacecraft on a trajectory toward the moon less than a half-hour after liftoff, Chinese officials confirmed.

Chang'e 4 is expected to enter lunar orbit Tuesday after a series of course-correction maneuvers, then use braking rockets to descend to the moon's surface, targeting a landing inside the 110-mile-wide (180-kilometer) Von Karman crater in moon's South Pole-Aitken basin region in early January.

Chinese officials have not released the exact landing date for Chang'e 4, but engineers are expected to target touchdown when the landing site is in sunlight.

No mission has explored the surface of the far side of the moon before, and if successful, Chang'e 4 will be a major first in space exploration, reaching a destination that has long been on the to-do list for NASA and international space scientists.
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Chang'e 4 uses spare hardware built for China's Chang'e 3 lunar lander and rover, which arrived at the moon in December 2013 with a touchdown in the Mare Imbrium volcanic basin on the near side of the moon.

The rover ceased driving a few weeks after landing, but some of the craft's instruments continued to function for a couple of years, and the stationary lander — a carrier module that delivered the rover to the lunar surface — was still operating earlier this year, according to an update issued by Chinese officials at the time. The Chang'e 3 rover, named Yutu and designed to drive up to 6 miles (10 kilometers), traveled around 374 feet (114 meters) before losing its mobility due to a hardware failure, according to Chinese scientists.

"There are plenty of successful missions with successful landings on the near side of the moon, including Chang'e 3 in Mare Imbrium," said Jun Huang from the Planetary Science Institute at the China University of Geosciences, in a presentation to U.S. scientists in March at the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in Texas. "This mission has lasted for nearly five years, and it increased our knowledge about the moon greatly, however, we don't have (until Chang'e 4) a mission dedicated to taking precision mesurements of the far side of the moon."

There are some key differences between Chang'e 3 and Chang'e 4. For example, the lander heading for the far side of the moon will not carry a robotic arm or an Active Particle X-ray Spectrometer, an instrument capable to measuring the chemical elements in lunar rocks and soil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxU75SDWy1s
In addition to a suite of cameras on both the stationary lander and rover, the mission aims to deliver a new se t of sensors to the lunar surface, some of which are provided by European scientists.

The roughly 2,600-pound (1,200-kilogram) landing module, which will make a rocket-powered landing on the moon like Chang'e 3, carries a low frequency radio spectrometer developed by Chinese scientists for astrophysics research. A German-developed neutron and dosimetry instrument on the stationary lander will measure radiation levels at the Chang'e 4 landing site, collecting data that could be useful in planning human exploration of the lunar far side, studying solar activity, and gauging the underground water content in Von Karman crater.

The Chang'e 4 rover, which weighs around 300 pounds (140 kilograms), hosts a ground-penetrating radar to study geologic layers buried under the landing site, and a visible and near-infrared spectrometer to gather data on soil composition. Chinese officials approved the addition of a Swedish instrument on the rover to study the interaction between the solar wind and the lunar surface, which is not shielded by an atmosphere from the bombardment of charged particles originating at the sun.

Chang'e 4 will also deliver to the moon a student-designed carrier containing potato seeds and silkworm eggs. University students and scientists will monitor the growth of the organisms, which are housed inside a chamber and fed natural light and nutrients once on the lunar surface.

Speaking to an audience of U.S. scientists earlier this year, Jun said the biological experiment aboard Chang'e 4 is "quite unique and interesting."

"There will be a micro-ecosystem inside," Jun said. "There are some vegetables and worms, which I think will be a good astrobiological demonstration."

Jun said the experiment to place seeds and eggs on the lunar surface could also help engage the public.


The deep, South Pole-Aitken basin is shown in shades of purples and blues in this color shaded relief map of the Moon's farside using data from NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, centered at 180 degrees longitude. Von Kármán crater is labeled. Credit: NASA/GSFC/DLR/ASU

Upgrades installed on the Chang'e 4 rover could allow it to reach the original design goal of Chang'e 3, which was to drive as far as 6 miles across the lunar surface, according to Jun.

Payloads aboard Chang'e 4 include experiments developed by at Harbin Institute of Technology, Zhongshan University, and Chongqing University of Science and Technology, according to the China National Space Administration.

"The soft landing and exploration of the far side, which has never been done before, will gain first-hand information about the terrain and lunar soil components and other scientific data, which will help enrich our understanding of the moon and the universe," said Zhang He, executive director of the Chang'e 4 probe project, in a report published by China's state-run Xinhua news agency.

The moon is tidally locked with Earth, so the same side of the lunar surface always faces our planet. One of the critical challenges in sending a mission to the far side of the moon — the hemisphere that always faces away from Earth — is communications.

China launched a dedicated relay satellite named Queqiao in May to pass off signals between ground controllers in China and the Chang'e 4 spacecraft when it is outside of direct radio contact. Queqiao, which means "magpie bridge" in Chinese, flew into a "halo orbit" around an Earth-moon gravitational balance location — called a Lagrange point — around 40,000 miles (65,000 kilometers) beyond the moon.

At that location, the combined effect from gravity from Earth and the moon keeps Queqiao at roughly the same distance as the moon completes each 28-day orbit around our planet.


Diagram of the Queqiao spacecraft's data relay function between Earth and the Chang'e 4 lander and rover. Credit: CASC

Chang'e 4 is the final planned mission in the second phase of China's lunar exploration program. China's first lunar mission — Chang'e 1 — launched in 2007 and surveyed the moon from lunar orbit for more than a year before impacting the surface in 2009. The Chang'e 2 orbiter launched in 2010, explored the moon several months, then flew to a more distant libration point and escaped the Earth-moon system to fly by an asteroid in 2012, a first for China's space program.

Following the Chang'e 3 and Chang'e 4 lunar lander missions, China plans to launch the Chang'e 5 spacecraft in late 2019 to land on the near side of the moon, collect samples and return the specimens to Earth. The sample return mission would be the first to return material from the lunar surface to Earth since the Soviet Union's Luna 24 mission in 1976.

China launched a prototype re-entry capsule on a trajectory around the moon and back to Earth in 2014 to test the ship's ability to withstand re-entry into the atmosphere on a return from deep space, which subjects the spacecraft to higher speeds and hotter temperatures than a re-entry from low Earth orbit. The Chang'e 5 T1 precursor mission was a success.

A follow-up mission named Chang'e 6, using spare components from Chang'e 5, could attempt a sample return from the far side of the moon in the early 2020s, and China is developing long-range plans to send humans to the moon in the 2030s.

China is also working on a Mars rover for launch in 2020.

China's growing push for international collaboration in space

The inclusion of instruments on Chang'e 4 from Kiel University in Germany and the Swedish Institute of Space Physics marks the first time international payloads have flown to the lunar surface on a Chinese lander.

China's Queqiao data relay craft also carries an international science payload. Dutch scientists developed a low-frequency radio receiving flying on Queqiao to study how future missions heading to the far side of the moon could be used for astronomical observations, taking advantage of a "radio quiet" interference-free zone wh ere the moon blocks natural and human-made radio emissions from the sun and Earth.

Two tech demo microsatellites also launched with Queqiao earlier this year, each with their own radio astronomy payloads and optical cameras from Saudi Arabia. One of the small spacecraft reportedly failed to enter lunar orbit, but the other successfully arrived at the moon and beamed imagery back to Earth.

Zhang Kejian, head of the China National Space Administration, or CNSA, said in October that the Queqiao relay satellite could be used by future lunar missions by other countries to the moon's far side. Zhang also announced at the International Astronautical Congress in Bremen, Germany, that an extra 22 pounds, or 10 kilograms, of payload capacity will be available on the Chang'e 6 mission for small instruments provided by institutions outside China.

There will also be opportunities for international science experiments on China's space station, scheduled to be completed in 2022, Zhang said.

"We welcome international participation by using the Chinese space station for scientific research," Zhang said in October. "The Mars and planetary missions of CNSA are being also implemented, and we look forward to having international cooperations in this particular area."


A camera aboard the Chang'e 3 lander captured this view of the Yutu rover in December 2013. The Chang'e 4 rover is similar in appearance. Credit: Chinese Academy of Sciences/NAOC/Science and Application Center for Moon and Deepspace Exploration

While space agencies in Europe are looking to expand partnerships with China's space program, NASA is banned by law from bilateral cooperation with China in space exploration. A provision inserted by former Rep. Frank Wolf, R-Virginia, in a NASA funding act in 2011 — and still in effect — prohibits the space agency from most forms of collaboration with China, such as direct agreements to support missions led by each nation.

At the same space industry meeting in Bremen, NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine, a former Oklahoma congressman, said he is concerned about China's military space efforts, but added that the space agency is open to expanded cooperation with the Chinese space program.

"From a U.S. government perspective, it is a concern," Bridenstine said, referring to China's advancing military space capabilities, and the blurred boundaries between the country's civilian and military space programs. "From a NASA perspective, we'll do whatever the U.S. government permits us to do in order to cooperate wh ere there are common interests, and there are areas wh ere there are common interests."

Data-sharing between U.S. and Chinese scientists continues, and some non-governmental institutions have arranged technical dialogs and data exchanges between top researchers working on NASA and Chinese space missions.

"Where we can cooperate is on data, and they're doing some amazing scientific experiments," Bridenstine told reporters in October. "They are flying to the far side of the moon, and the United states is doing some amazing scientific experiments, and we can share data and collaborate that way, so each country can learn even more about science. This could be the first confidence-building measure that is necessary to establish the kind of relationship that's necessary to go to the next step."

Bridenstine also emphasized the importance for all space powers, including China, to work together on limiting space debris in Earth orbit, and ensuring satellites do not collide or interfere with each other in space.

"There is no issue on the face of the planet, as it relates to space, more important for all of us to get right than that issue," Bridenstine said. "We need to preserve the space environment for generations to come, and the only way we're going to be able to do that internationally is to collaborate in mitigation, and ultimately space situational awareness and space traffic management, and even remediation of orbital debris. So I think there are ways we can collaborate."

"We do collaborate already," Bridenstine said. "I think there are more ways to collaborate, but we do need to build confidence so we can do even more in the future."
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tnt22

ЦитироватьAndrew Jones‏ @AJ_FI 2:40 - 8 дек. 2018 г.

Here's the fallout from the Chang'e-4 moon mission launch from Xichang yesterday. Apparent booster debris from the Long March 3B rocket (using nasty hypergolic propellant) found downrange in Yuqing County, Guizhou province. Source: https://weibo.com/5674457247/H6hK1Ast5?refer_flag=1001030103_ ... #ChangE4

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11:34 - 8 дек. 2018 г.

More debris from the Long March 3B rocket that launched Chang'e-4. Source: https://www.weibo.com/5616492130/H6jjrrDKV?from=page_1005055616492130_profile&wvr=6&mod=weibotime ... #ChangE4

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Старый

Почему у китайцев не слышно стенаний про страшный гептил?
1. Ангара - единственная в мире новая РН которая хуже старой (с) Старый Ламер
2. Назначение Роскосмоса - не летать в космос а выкачивать из бюджета деньги
3. У Маска ракета длиннее и толще чем у Роскосмоса
4. Чем мрачнее реальность тем ярче бред (с) Старый Ламер

Чебурашка

Потому что у них есть руководящая и направляющая партия, которая решает, что для населения страшно, а что не страшно :D

Гептил это херня. А вот, что ступени ракет падают прямо на населённые пункты и никто не парится насчёт полей падения - вот это довольно забавно выглядит.

tnt22

ЦитироватьAndrew Jones‏ @AJ_FI 2:58 - 9 дек. 2018 г.

Chang'e-4: At 08:42 UTC (16:42 Beijing time time) today the 2nd planned trajectory correction manoeuvre was carried out (the 1st, planned for 11:42 UTC Saturday, was cancelled due to the course being satisfactory).
Source: https://www.weibo.com/6528178851/H6rT75RZd?type=comment ...




3:09 - 9 дек. 2018 г.

While the above is official, the unofficial time going around for TCM3 is to be ~18:30 BJT (10:30 UTC) on Dec 11. According to this source, lunar orbit insertion around 18:30 BJT (10:30 UTC) Dec 12. Hopefully more official updates in the post, too.
#ChangE4

tnt22

ЦитироватьAndrew Jones‏ @AJ_FI 11:28 - 9 дек. 2018 г. - 9 дек. 2018 г.

Right, so this is getting into the weeds a bit/too much, but while we're here... here's the logo for the China lunar exploration project (CLEP) ( 中国探月/Zhongguo Tanyue) which you may have noticed on the #ChangE4 payload fairing. Seems there's a few things going on here (1/5).

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11:28 - 9 дек. 2018 г. - 9 дек. 2018 г.

The overall shape is reminiscent of a crescent Moon and seemingly both to the ancient pictograph for Moon and the modern Chinese character (月·)。(Image from: https://joyalicialin.wordpress.com/2015/10/08/the-history-of-chinese-people-as-told-in-chinese-calligraphy-blog5/ ...) (2/5).




11:28 - 9 дек. 2018 г. - 9 дек. 2018 г.

The two grey marks actually resemble footprints (indicating long term goals, one imagines...), while the grey is likely chosen for the Moon itself (3/5).




11:28 - 9 дек. 2018 г. - 9 дек. 2018 г.

The blue curve, if you look at the bottom, contains the pattern of a flock of birds, which I understand to be doves, hence emphasising peaceful exploration of the Moon/space (which was seemingly necessary to underline...) (4/5).




11:28 - 9 дек. 2018 г. - 9 дек. 2018 г.

That's a pretty impressive logo, if you ask me. Would be very happy to have additions and corrections to the above (5/5).

Старый

ЦитироватьЧебурашка пишет:
Потому что у них есть руководящая и направляющая партия, которая решает, что для населения страшно, а что не страшно  :D

Гептил это херня. А вот, что ступени ракет падают прямо на населённые пункты и никто не парится насчёт полей падения - вот это довольно забавно выглядит.
Так где же там ракете упасть - там же милиард китайцев! :) Удивительно другое - что никого до сих пор не убило. (упавшими ступенями, ато счас дежурный клоун начнёт рассказывать про две аварии)
 Однако с полями падения таки запарились - с переселением на Хайнань всё будет падать в море. 
1. Ангара - единственная в мире новая РН которая хуже старой (с) Старый Ламер
2. Назначение Роскосмоса - не летать в космос а выкачивать из бюджета деньги
3. У Маска ракета длиннее и толще чем у Роскосмоса
4. Чем мрачнее реальность тем ярче бред (с) Старый Ламер

ХВ.

Ясное дело, что схема полёта и работа ступеней Р-Н на этапе выведения Чанъэ-4  на траекторию к Луне почти аналогичны схеме полёта и работе ступеней Р-Н при выведении Чанъэ-3 - возможные нюансы, если они есть, связаны с прилунением у Южного полюса.
Тем не менее, найти интересующую информацию по Чанъэ-3 в Интернете не удалось, тем более не нашёл её по Чанъэ-4.

Интересует время работы двигателей ступеней, время включения двигателей последней ступени при выводе на траекторию полёта к Луне (и время работы), а также аналогичные параметры при торможении у Луны и дальнейшие управляющие импульсы для выхода на орбиту, проходящую через район посадки вплоть до прилунения, - тяга двигателей, уд. импульс, х/с и прочие подробности.

Спасибо !

FarEcho

ЦитироватьСтарый пишет:
Так где же там ракете упасть - там же милиард китайцев!  :)  Удивительно другое - что никого до сих пор не убило...
Убило, не убило - это тоже партии виднее.

ХВ.

ЦитироватьFarEcho пишет:
Убило, не убило - это тоже партии виднее.
А Старому ещё виднее.

Старый

ЦитироватьХВ. пишет:
Тем не менее, найти интересующую информацию по Чанъэ-3 в Интернете не удалось, тем более не нашёл её по Чанъэ-4.
Может всё дело в китайском языке? ;) 
Могу предложить хороший выход: выписывай НК. Хотя уже поздно.:( 
1. Ангара - единственная в мире новая РН которая хуже старой (с) Старый Ламер
2. Назначение Роскосмоса - не летать в космос а выкачивать из бюджета деньги
3. У Маска ракета длиннее и толще чем у Роскосмоса
4. Чем мрачнее реальность тем ярче бред (с) Старый Ламер