Pence's challenge to land on the Moon by 2024

[Старый]

ГСЛВ затейлива тем что у неё ТТУ и  первая ступень шиворот-навыворот - ТТУ в центре а первая ступень - навесными блоками. Они сами в шоке, даже не делят это на ускорители и ступень.

[triage]

 https://spacepolicyonline.com/news/two-phases-of-the-moon-nasa-will-tackle-lunar-return-fast-then-sustainably/
...
NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine said today that NASA is dividing its human lunar exploration program into two phases.  Phase 1, to be completed by 2024 as directed by the White House, will focus on getting astronauts to the lunar surface fast.  Phase 2, by 2028, will focus on making the program sustainable.
....
Yesterday he announced that he is hiring Mark Sirangelo to develop a strategy and plan as well as lead a reorganization of the agency.
...
The current architecture also requires development of a small space station in lunar orbit, the Gateway, where Orion will dock; a transfer vehicle to take astronauts from the Gateway to a lower lunar orbit; a descent vehicle to land them on the surface; an ascent vehicle to get them off the surface; and spacesuits to wear while they are on the surface.
....
Congress has not agreed to the White House proposal yet. Congressional reaction so ranges from skepticism to wait-and-see what the plan is and how much it will cost.
....

с проекта Dream Chaser на реорганизацию под проект Флаготык Трампа.

[Практик]

По моему надо приветствовать флаговтык Трампа! По крайней мере даст нам время успеть подготовиться, так сказать подтянуть тылы...Если конечно мы опять всё не профуфоним!

Ну а что касается Gateway - её перспективы становятся туманными -Боливар не выдержит двоих!... да и нам не надо голову ломать участвовать или нет.

[Astro Cat]

Практик пишет:
По крайней мере даст нам время успеть подготовиться, так сказать подтянуть тылы...

К чему готовится и как?

Практик пишет:
у а что касается Gateway - её перспективы становятся туманными -Боливар не выдержит

Она усохнет до 1-2 модулей, имхо. Более и не нужно. 

[Alex_II]

Astro Cat пишет:
Она усохнет до 1-2 модулей, имхо. Более и не нужно.

меньше двух не выйдет - один жилой, второй - энерго-двигательный...

[Alex_II]

Astro Cat пишет:
К чему готовится и как?

К новым обещаниям на тему "скоро мы ух!!!!", к чему же еще...

[triage]

Практик пишет:
Ну а что касается Gateway - её перспективы становятся туманными -Боливар не выдержит двоих!... да и нам не надо голову ломать участвовать или нет.

Если что я специально привел о наличии Шлюза, ворот в версии флаготыка Трампа.

[Практик]

Astro Cat пишет:

Практик пишет:
По крайней мере даст нам время успеть подготовиться, так сказать подтянуть тылы...

К чему готовится и как?

Ну как к чему? СТК "склепать" и ПТК "добить"!

[Практик]

pnetmon пишет:

Практик пишет:
Ну а что касается Gateway - её перспективы становятся туманными -Боливар не выдержит двоих!... да и нам не надо голову ломать участвовать или нет.

Если что я специально привел о наличии Шлюза, ворот в версии флаготыка Трампа.

Флаговтык и Ворота не стыкуются! Ведь в сообщении написано про две фазы!
Очевидно схема такая: Орион выводится на низкую, где стыкуется с ЛЕМ..."классический" флаговтык, о котором и Микрин говорил на Чтениях. Через трое суток домой...

[triage]

Практик пишет:
Флаговтык и Ворота не стыкуются! Ведь в сообщении написано про две фазы!

https://spacepolicyonline.com/news/two-phases-of-the-moon-nasa-will-tackle-lunar-return-fast-then-sustainably/ 

TWO PHASES OF THE MOON — NASA WILL TACKLE LUNAR RETURN FAST, THEN SUSTAINABLY

By Marcia Smith | Posted: April 9, 2019 11:57 pm ET | Last Updated: April 10, 2019 12:24 am ET

NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine said today that NASA is dividing its human lunar exploration program into two phases.  Phase 1, to be completed by 2024 as directed by the White House, will focus on getting astronauts to the lunar surface fast.  Phase 2, by 2028, will focus on making the program sustainable. The plan itself remains the same as before, but the Administration will request funding to accelerate it by 4 years.

Bridenstine spoke at the Space Symposium in Colorado Springs, CO.  He offered few new details on how NASA will fulfill its new mandate to land humans on the Moon in 5 years, but conveyed enthusiasm and confidence that NASA will succeed.

Since March 26 when Vice President Mike Pence, as chairman of the White House National Space Council, tasked NASA with that goal, Bridenstine has spoken to the NASA workforce and testified to two congressional committees, but provided little in the way of an actual plan.  Yesterday he announced that he is hiring Mark Sirangelo to develop a strategy and plan as well as lead a reorganization of the agency.

Today, however, he indicated that the plan is the same as it was prior to March 26, but now will happen in two phases.

In Phase 1, the focus is speed.  "We want to get those boots on the Moon as soon as possible. ... Anything that is a distraction fr om making that happen we're getting rid of."

That means getting the first launch of the Space Launch System (SLS) with an uncrewed Orion capsule, Exploration Mission-1 (EM-1), off the launch pad by the end of 2020.  A test flight of SLS and Orion, EM-1 has slipped repeatedly.  Until last month, it was on the books for June 2020, but prime contractor Boeing told NASA last month that it would slip again into 2021.  Instead of accepting a new delay, however, it appears to have been the catalyst for the current rush to speed up the schedule and look at alternatives to SLS.  Bridenstine since has reaffirmed the agency's commitment to SLS for EM-1 and insists EM-1 will launch by the end of next year, which would be a 6- month slip.  How Boeing will achieve that is unclear.  NASA officials have said the issues delaying the launch are technical and cannot be fixed by adding money. Apparently they are looking at changing some of the testing requirements, but nothing definitive has been announced yet.

Keeping to that schedule will be one key to fulfilling the "speed" of Phase 1, but there are many more.  The Orion spacecraft that will be used on EM-1 will not be outfitted with life support systems to support a crew.  The fully capable Orion, with a crew, will be flown on EM-2.  Bridenstine said only that EM-2 needs to be flown "as soon as possible."

The current architecture also requires development of a small space station in lunar orbit, the Gateway, where Orion will dock; a transfer vehicle to take astronauts fr om the Gateway to a lower lunar orbit; a descent vehicle to land them on the surface; an ascent vehicle to get them off the surface; and spacesuits to wear while they are on the surface. The Gateway just received its first funding in the FY2019 appropriations bill signed into law in January.  The other elements are conceptual.

NASA's plan was to do all that by 2028.  It now must do it by 2024. How much it will cost to accelerate the program is unknown.  The Administration is working on a revised budget request for FY2020 that will include that information.

Bridenstine still has 2028 as a milestone.  Phase 2 is "sustainabilty by 2028." 

Спойлер

That means reusability to reduce costs, a theme Bridenstine often invokes.  It also means commercial and international partners.  Canada is the only country that has already committed to working with NASA on the Gateway, though others have expressed interest.  They, like everyone else, were taken by surprise by the sudden White House decision to accelerate the program.

Congress has not agreed to the White House proposal yet. Congressional reaction so far ranges from skepticism to wait-and-see what the plan is and how much it will cost.  One concern is that NASA will take money from other parts of NASA to fund the Moon 2024 program.  Bridenstine made clear today that he has no plans to "cannibalize" other NASA programs.  NASA has a history of doing that, he said, but "it doesn't work" because it creates partisan discord and bipartisanship is essential to success.

Bridenstine reminded the audience today that Pence told him to get Moon-by-2024 done "by any means necessary" and that "the mission matters more than the means."

Pence also said that if NASA cannot do it, NASA must change, not the goal.

That certainly puts a lot of pressure on the agency, but Bridenstine is not deterred.  "NASA is committed. NASA has the people to achieve it. And when it is accomplished it will be an all-of-the-United-States accomplishment. And I am so grateful for all that we are about to do at this little agency we call NASA."

Last Updated: Apr 10, 2019 12:24 am ET

[свернуть]

https://spacenews.com/bridenstine-outlines-two-phase-approach-for-accelerated-lunar-return/

Bridenstine outlines two-phase approach for accelerated lunar return

COLORADO SPRINGS — NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine said the agency's approach to moving up a human lunar landing from 2028 to 2024 will focus first on speed and then on sustainability.

In a plenary speech at the 35th Space Symposium here April 9, Bridenstine said the new approach the agency is developing in response to the goal of a human lunar landing in five years announced by Vice President Mike Pence two weeks ago will involve many of the same elements of NASA's original plans, but in a revised order.

"All of those elements that were necessary to getting humans to the surface of the moon in 2028, all those elements still exist. The plan is still the same," he said. That includes, he said, development of the Space Launch System and Orion spacecraft, a lunar Gateway in orbit around the moon, and lunar landers.

What will change, he said, is the schedule for developing some of those elements, which will be split into two phases. "The first phase is speed. We want to get those boots on the moon as soon as possible," he said. "Anything that is a distraction from making that happen we're getting rid of."

That emphasis on speed includes launching Exploration Mission (EM) 1, an uncrewed Orion test flight, on the first flight of the SLS in 2020, to be followed by the first crewed Orion mission, EM-2, "as soon as possible thereafter."

That phase will also include the lunar Gateway, although Bridenstine suggested it would initially incorporate only a fraction of the elements previously proposed for it by NASA and international partners. "The first elements of Gateway are focused exclusively on the surface of the moon," he said, specifically mentioning the Power and Propulsion Element NASA is currently reviewing proposals for, as well as a habitation module.

Спойлер

NASA is also changing its approach for developing lunar lander elements. NASA issued a solicitation in February as part of its Next Space Technologies for Exploration Partnerships (NextSTEP) program, seeking concepts for a transfer vehicle and a descent module. At the time agency officials said they planned to keep studies for the lander's ascent module, which would require human rating, within the agency.

However, on April 8 NASA announced it would soon issue another NextSTEP solicitation for ascent module concepts. That solicitation, which will likely start with study contracts but could soon lead to technology development awards, is designed "to enable rapid development and flight demonstrations of human lunar landers," the agency said its procurement filing.

NASA rushed through that new ascent module solicitation in just seven days, Bridenstine said. "We could have had it out in four days, but I put the brakes on it because I wanted to make sure we were heading in the right direction," he said. All three elements of the lunar landing system, he said, will be developed as public private partnerships.

The Commercial Lunar Payload Services (CLPS) program, wh ere NASA awarded contracts to nine companies developing commercial lunar landers that can carry agency payloads, will also factor into this phase. "We're focusing those capabilities on projects and science that can help us get humans to the surface of the moon, to the most valuable places on the surface of the moon, as soon as possible," he said.

[свернуть]

A second phase of the lunar return effort would kick in after achieving that first human landing, he said, and would focus on long-term sustainability of the exploration architecture by 2028. He gave few details about that approach, but noted it would involve building out the Gateway and making sure key elements like the lunar landers are reusable.

Спойлер

"We're building a capability, we're building an architecture that's ultimately sustainable for the long run," he said. "All this was already planned for 2028. We're just going to accelerate pieces of it."

Bridenstine said little about the cost of this new approach, but confirmed earlier statements that the agency will provide an amended budget proposal to Congress in the near future. He hinted that NASA might ask international partners to contribute more or seek additional partners.

"We're going to be going back to Congress with an increased budget request," he said. "If we could maybe ask our international partners to step up a little more, that would be great as well."

[свернуть]

https://spacenews.com/lockheed-martin-offers-architecture-for-2024-human-lunar-landing/

Lockheed Martin offers architecture for 2024 human lunar landing



COLORADO SPRINGS — Lockheed Martin says it has developed an approach to achieving the goal of landing humans on the south pole of the moon by 2024, but warns that construction of essential hardware would have to start soon to meet that deadline.

In a briefing at the 35th Space Symposium here April 10, company officials said they can make extensive use of existing hardware to develop components like a scaled-down version of the lunar Gateway and a two-stage lunar lander on an accelerated schedule.

While many details have yet to be worked out, the basic elements of the plan, Lockheed argues, demonstrates that the ability to meet the 2024 deadline established March 26 by Vice President Mike Pence in a National Space Council speech is at least technically feasible, if challenging.

"This isn't the only way to accomplish this," said Rob Chambers, director of human spaceflight strategy and business development at Lockheed Martin. He called the approach the company described an "existence proof" that the overall goal is feasible. "The objective here is to lay out an architecture that moves the needle from 'is this possible' to 'okay, how do we do it best?'"

Lockheed's plan would diverge from NASA's old approach after Exploration Mission (EM) 1, an uncrewed test of the Orion spacecraft launched by the Space Launch System in 2020. The company proposes launching a "Phase 1" Gateway in 2022 consisting of just the Power and Propulsion Element (PPE) and a small habitation module with docking ports. NASA expects to issue awards for the PPE in May, while the habitation module could be adapted from ongoing studies that are part of NASA's Next Space Technologies for Exploration Partnerships, or NextSTEP, program.

That would be followed by EM-2, the first crewed Orion flight. While NASA's current architecture would have that mission go on a "free return" trajectory around the moon, in this plan the Orion would fly to and dock with the Gateway to check out its systems.

That would require modifying the Orion spacecraft for that mission to incorporate a docking system. "It looks credible and sensible that we could add the docking to EM-2," Chambers said. "It would allow us to test out operations from the Gateway."

The Lockheed Martin proposal calls for the development of a two-stage lunar lander with ascent and descent stages. The descent stage would be developed from concepts NASA solicited earlier this year through another part of the NextSTEP program. The ascent stage makes use of Orion components, such the pressure vessel, and a "built-to-print" version of the propulsion system for the Orion service module.

The two lander stages would launch separately on commercial launch vehicles to the Gateway by early 2024, wh ere they would be mated. Tim Cichan, space exploration architect at Lockheed Martin, said an alternative approach would be to launch them together on a single SLS.

In 2024, NASA would launch EM-3, an Orion carrying four astronauts to the Gateway. Some of all of them would board the lander — Cichan said the company is still studying how many people the lander can support — and go to the lunar surface. Those astronauts would likely spend several days in the vicinity of the lunar south pole before launching on the ascent module back to the Gateway, and then board Orion for the trip home.

Спойлер

While Lockheed Martin discussed the plan just 15 days after Pence's speech, work on the architecture presented started months ago. "We looked at what's the fastest we could go," Cichan said, which found that it could be done by 2024. However, he warned, "It's going to be a challenge."

To achieve the 2024 deadline, work on lander hardware would have to start next year, Chambers said. "We need to be bending metal next year, which means tooling already has to be in house, and I hope somebody ordered a bunch of aluminum," he said.

He compared its development schedule to the Orion spacecraft for EM-3, which NASA's schedules currently call for being ready for launch in August 2023. Work on the crew module will start this fall to meet that date, he said. The lander ascent stage, derived from Orion, would need to start production by early 2020 to be ready for launch in early 2024, which would give it enough time to be ready for a mission to the lunar surface before the end of 2024.

"By the end of this year there needs to be materials starting to show up and folks on contract to begin building to print what exists today that we can safely leverage," he said.

The company declined to estimate how much this accelerated approach would cost, in part because it depends on a number of factors. However, Chambers said it would require funding above earlier budget projections.

"We've all agreed it's not free," he said. "The current program of record can't be turned into a crewed landing in 2024 without some kind of additional resources for the human exploration activity."

NASA has also declined to estimate how much an accelerated program, be it like Lockheed's concept or an alternative architecture, would cost. Industry sources during the symposium estimated NASA would need perhaps $3–5 billion more per year to achieve a landing by 2024, but for now NASA is not offering any figures as it works on an amendment to its fiscal year 2020 budget proposal.

"We need to be ready by next week to have a consensus administration position on that," NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine told reporters at the Space Symposium April 9. That work will involve coordination with the Office of Management and Budget and the staff of the National Space Council before delivering a proposal to Congress. "Until we get to that point I don't want to put any numbers on the table."

[свернуть]

[triage]

или от LM - https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2337303616514441

[Дмитрий Инфан]

компания все еще изучает, сколько людей может поддерживать посадочный аппарат - и уходит на поверхность Луны.

Лунного модуля, следовательно, даже в проекте нет.

[triage]

Дмитрий Инфан пишет:

компания все еще изучает, сколько людей может поддерживать посадочный аппарат - и уходит на поверхность Луны.

Лунного модуля, следовательно, даже в проекте нет.

Так и знания что в 2024 году доставит на орбиту Луны нету. Для новой версии второй ступени SLS которая доставляла в 2028 бюджет на ближайшие годы зарезали совсем недавно.

[Astro Cat]

pnetmon пишет: 

 The company proposes launching a "Phase 1" Gateway in 2022 consisting of just the Power and Propulsion Element (PPE) and a small habitation module with docking ports.

Astro Cat пишет:
Она усохнет до 1-2 модулей, имхо. Более и не нужно.

Во! Уже выполняют! )))

[Чебурашка]

Оно и нахер не надо.
Нужен сортир и пару стыковочных узлов. 
Можно и мирового лидера по разработке космических сортиров привлечь.

[Not]

Чебурашка пишет:
Оно и нахер не надо.
Нужен сортир и пару стыковочных узлов.
Можно и мирового лидера по разработке космических сортиров привлечь.

А то! Дешево и сердито. Наклеить на сортир флаг нужной страны и можно запускать.

[Дмитрий Инфан]

Чебурашка пишет:
Оно и нахер не надо.

Периориентация с SLS на Фалькон-Хэви, на что все намекают, означает, что летать к Луне придётся в двупуск. А при двупусковой схеме, когда корабль и лэндер доставляются отдельно, ЛОС (даже самая минимальная) кажется естественной.