Международная лунная посещаемая платформа

Автор Salo, 27.06.2016 14:18:40

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Димитър

ЦитироватьДмитрий Виницкий написал:
 
ЦитироватьДимитър написал:
А насчёт Прогресс-Л, насколько это серьёзно?  
Только при наличии батута
Вроде батут будет - Ангара-5М + КВТК 

Дмитрий Виницкий

ЦитироватьДимитър написал:
 Вроде батут будет - Ангара-5М + КВТК  
Вот будет батут, тогда и приходите.
+35797748398

Alex_II

ЦитироватьДимитър написал:
Вроде батут будет - Ангара-5М + КВТК  
КВТК пока даже на горизонте не видать...
И мы пошли за так, на четвертак, за ради бога
В обход и напролом и просто пылью по лучу...

triage

#1463
Рогозин заявил о участии России в строительстве и эксплуатации? Нет. Тогда прошу по российским возможностям в соседнюю тему Освоения Луны.

А по Воротам - финансирование НАСА на будущий год уже утвердили чтобы утверждать что все утвержднено?
В заявлении НАСА по логистическим услугам второй модуль опять новое название носит (Negotiations are ongoing for development of the habitation and logistics outpost (HALO) module. ) .

triage

#1464
Читая на госзакупках http://zakupki.gov.ru/epz/order/notice/ok504/view/common-info.html?regNumber=0995000000219000098
заказ на российскую разработку планов изучения и освоения Луны с оглядкой на зарубежные работы и планы
Цитировать...
В настоящее время имеется большой зарубежный опыт использования робототехнических систем при осуществлении пилотируемых космических полётов на кораблях Спейс Шаттл и на МКС, т.е. на низких околоземных орбитах. При этом РТС ....
...
В имеющих официальный статус рабочих материалах международной группы ISECG по проекту международной окололунной космической станции (официальный сайт: https://www.globalspaceexploration.org/wordpress) предусмотрено использование на модуле ESPIRIT грузового манипулятора типа Canadarm для выполнения манипуляций с полезными грузами, пристыковки модулей, перемещения космонавтов при внекорабельной деятельности, а также захвата стартующих к станции с поверхности Луны модулей автоматических космических аппаратов с лунным грунтом.
За рубежом (в США, Японии, Китае) ведутся также активные исследования по созданию лунных манипуляторов-кранов, луномобилей, телеуправляемых роботов для строительства лунных напланетных баз, добычи и....
Canadarm возможно будет доставлен к пилотируемой (еще не финансируемой) высадке в 2024 году. И куда его поставят? Европа еще не приняла решение на правительственном уровне.

Димитър

#1465
ЦитироватьAlex_II написал:
 
ЦитироватьДимитър написал:
Вроде батут будет - Ангара-5М + КВТК  
КВТК пока даже на горизонте не видать...
Кстати, Ангара-5М не сможет доставить Прогресс-Л и без КВТК? Там ХС с опорной орбиты получается где-то 3500 м/сёк. ДМ или Бриз? 

triage

#1466
Гугло перевод с японского (с разбитием на абзацы "на глаз")
Цитироватьhttps://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20190827/k10012049681000.html?utm_int=news-culture_contents_list-it...

2019 08 27

The MEXT has decided to include a total of approximately 15 billion yen in the budget request for the next fiscal year as a cost to participate in the new gateway "Gateway" that the moon advances around the moon.

The new space station "Gateway" orbiting the moon is aiming for completion around the year 2026, and the United States is calling for participation in each country, and the Japanese government is making adjustments to announce participation within the year.

The Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology has solidified its policy of including approximately 15 billion yen in the budget request for the next fiscal year as a cost for participation in the gateway.

Among them, about 10.8 billion yen was recorded as an expense to improve the unmanned space transport ship "Kototori" to deliver goods to the gateway, and unmanned space exploration in cooperation with India
Approximately 1.2 billion yen is included for the development of exploration vehicles, and approximately 600 million yen is included for the development of equipment related to life support for astronauts using the gateway.

This is the first time that the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology has included a full-scale budget for participation in the gateway as a rough demand.
То же самое на английском но сокращенно
Цитироватьhttps://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20190827_02/

Monday, Aug. 26, 20:47

Japan's science ministry plans to request budget funding in the next fiscal year to join a US-led space station project.

The project calls for a space station called Gateway to be put into orbit around the moon. The planned completion date is 2026.

Japan's government aims to officially announce its participation by the end of year.
[свернуть]
The ministry plans to seek about 15 billion yen for the project, or over 140 million dollars, in the fiscal year starting April 2020.

About two-thirds of the budget will go toward upgrading the country's unmanned cargo spacecraft, called Kounotori, for use in the project.

The rest of the money will be used to develop an unmanned lunar rover in cooperation with India, and life-support systems for astronauts.

It will be the ministry's first budget request for this project.
[свернуть]
По сообщения за последний месяц в сентябре приезд Трампа с Пенсом - будут говорить, что-то подписывать. Тут хоть на английском написано про запрос финансирования и на что.

triage

#1467
опять подготовка
Цитироватьhttps://global.jaxa.jp/press/2019/09/20190924a.html
...
Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA)
and
National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA)

Joint Statement on Cooperation in Lunar Exploration
Спойлер
During their September 24, 2019, meeting at JAXA Headquarters in Tokyo, NASA Administrator James Bridenstine and JAXA President Hiroshi Yamakawa welcomed the ongoing engagement between their agencies to realize JAXA's participation in NASA's Artemis program and vision for the participation of Japanese astronauts in lunar exploration.

They noted that these efforts build on the long history of strong cooperation between their two agencies on the International Space Station and across all mission areas, as well as the May 2019 shared view of President Donald Trump and Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to accelerate discussions on cooperation regarding lunar exploration and affirmed their joint commitment for NASA and JAXA to collaborate in lunar exploration with a view toward Mars. Specifically, both agencies' leaders expressed their desire to expand the scientific and technological cooperation between NASA and JAXA to advance human lunar surface activities, leading to eventual human exploration of Mars.
[свернуть]

The agency leaders shared their intention to seek support and commitment fr om their stakeholders in the United States and Japan to document proposals and to conclude the necessary arrangements between their respective agencies and governments.

Administrator Bridenstine welcomed JAXA's proposals for cooperation on Gateway, including habitation functions and logistics missions, utilizing the Japanese HTV-X spacecraft and H3 launch vehicle.

Спойлер
The leaders highlighted NASA's participation in JAXA's SLIM (Smart Lander for Investigating the Moon) mission and discussions regarding NASA's potential participation in the planned JAXA-Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) Lunar Polar Exploration mission, as well as JAXA's sharing of acquired observational data from those missions to contribute to NASA's lunar exploration goals and objectives. Both leaders also welcomed JAXA's interest in providing science instruments to fly with NASA payloads on future CLPS (Commercial Lunar Payload Services) delivery missions and the planned upcoming launch of two JAXA-provided cubesats on NASA's Artemis 1 mission. These cooperative activities will contribute to their respective lunar science and exploration priorities, and both leaders acknowledged that the acquired data from these missions will contribute to NASA's plan to return humans to the Moon in 2024.

Additionally, President Yamakawa expressed JAXA's willingness to explore further cooperation to realize sustainable lunar surface activities, including through the potential provision of and collaboration on pressurized crew rovers, transportation vehicles to and from the lunar surface, and In-Situ Resource Utilization technology.

Acknowledging that both agencies are at a critical time for realizing their shared goals of advancing sustainable human presence at the Moon and Mars, the agency leaders committed to continue the close dialogue across their agencies at all levels in the tradition that has been the hallmark of NASA-JAXA collaboration.

Signed on September 24, 2019
[свернуть]

Цитироватьhttps://blogs.nasa.gov/bridenstine/2019/09/24/readout-nasa-administrator-bridenstines-visit-to-japan-day-1/
Readout: NASA Administrator Bridenstine's Visit to Japan (Day 1)
September 24, 2019
...
Following the interview, Bridenstine met with Hiroshi Yamakawa, president of the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA), to discuss future bilateral cooperation and JAXA's potential participation in NASA's Artemis program. They identified several areas in which the United States and Japan can extend scientific and technological cooperation to advance sustainable exploration of the Moon, including on the lunar Gateway and the Moon's surface.
...
Following the signing of the joint statement with JAXA, Bridenstine met with Koichi Hagiuda, minister of Education, Culture, Sports, Science, and Technology – the parent ministry of JAXA – to discuss Japan's participation on the Gateway and Artemis lunar surface activities.
...
День 2 в посещении страны
 https://blogs.nasa.gov/bridenstine/2019/09/25/readout-nasa-administrator-bridenstines-visit-to-japan-day-2/

Цитироватьhttps://spacenews.com/nasa-and-jaxa-reaffirm-intent-to-cooperate-in-lunar-exploration/
NASA and JAXA reaffirm intent to cooperate in lunar exploration
by Jeff Foust — September 25, 2019
...
"JAXA's capabilities, and the nation of Japan's capabilities, are significant," Bridenstine said in a joint press conference with Yamakawa Sept. 25. "The United States and NASA would love to see Japan and JAXA working with us on building that space station in orbit around the moon."

"A habitation module is just the beginning. It will need to be served by a logistics capability," he continued. "The H3 rocket and the HTV-X cargo capsule could very well provide logistics to the Gateway."

The announcement didn't provide a timetable for providing either the habitation module or logistics services, although they would likely come only later in the 2020s, after the first landing in 2024. Those would also have to be coordinated with other potential contributions from international partners as well as commercial capabilities, such as NASA's ongoing solicitation for commercial cargo services for the Gateway.
...
Bridenstine said at the press conference that NASA hopes to have all the current ISS partners involved in the Gateway and overall Artemis program. Besides JAXA's proposed contributions, Canada has already committed to providing the Canadarm3 robotic arm for the Gateway, while both the European Space Agency and Roscosmos are weighing their own contributions, such as modules and airlocks.

"We also believe there is room for more countries to join us," he added. He cited as an example the agreement NASA and the Australian Space Agency signed Sept. 21 to study potential Australian contributions to the Artemis program, as well as potential roles for India and the United Arab Emirates.

He hedged, though, when asked if China could participate. Existing law prohibits bilateral cooperation between NASA and China without congressional approval, he noted. "If that were to change, it would be above my pay grade," he said.
...

Цитироватьhttps://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0006032489?fp=6cb1908aa6c0249b125ae38400dc2662
5:01 pm, September 25, 2019

The Yomiuri Shimbun
...
In regard to the framework of countries participating in the project, Bridenstine touched on the history of space exploration with Russia, saying: "Space collaboration remains separate from geopolitics ... we have now the ISS wh ere we have had American astronauts and Russian cosmonauts living and working in space for 20 years. So this has been a long-term relationship that has been positive for both countries and my intention is to keep that going."

As for China, which is eager to explore the moon, Bridenstine said, "We don't anticipate cooperating with China, and we can rule that out in the future."

frigate

#1468
ЦитироватьДимитър написал:
 
ЦитироватьAlex_II написал:
 
ЦитироватьДимитър  написал:
Вроде батут будет - Ангара-5М + КВТК  
КВТК пока даже на горизонте не видать...
Кстати, Ангара-5М не сможет доставить Прогресс-Л и без КВТК? Там ХС с опорной орбиты получается где-то 3500 м/сёк. ДМ или Бриз?  
Просчитал - Ангара А5М сможет вывести к LOP-G не только "Прогресс-Л" (7400 кг) но и транспортный грузовой корабль повышенной грузоподьёмности
(ТКГ ПГ) массой 8200 кг, разрабатываемый РКК Энергия с 2016 года.  
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/tgk-pg.html  
Ангара А5М с РБ "Персей" 14С48 при старте с Восточного может вывести ПН 8287 кг к LOP-G (с учетом грав. потерь на отлетной траектории к Луне) 
Ангара А5М с РБ "Орион" 14С49 при старте с Восточного может вывести ПН 8426 кг к LOP-G (с учетом грав. потерь на отлетной траектории к Луне)
Идеальная ХС для отлета к Луне с круговой орбиты высотой 200 км  - 3137 м/сек 
Идеальная ХС для выхода на NRHO орбиту - 428.5 м/сек (с гравитационным маневром у Луны) 
Это предварительный расчет, для более точного нужны знать параметры незамкнутой орбиты выведения перед довыведением и при массах КГЧ:
ПН+РБ "Персей" - 30,427 кг
ПН+РБ "Орион"  - 30,566 кг
Все что известно про РН Ангара А5М - это масса ПН 27000 кг на круговой орбите высотой 200 км с наклонением 51.6 град
"Селена, луна. Селенгинск, старинный город в Сибири: город лунных ракет." Владимир Набоков

Кубик

Цитироватьfrigate написал:
Просчитал - Ангара А5М сможет вывести к LOP-G не только "Прогресс-Л" (7400 кг) но и транспортный грузовой корабль повышенной грузоподьёмности (ТКГ ПГ) массой 8200 кг, разрабатываемый РКК Энергия с 2016 года.  
Там и ждут.. И кому такое надо? Своих задач нет, так за хвост амерам цепляться?
И бесы веруют... И - трепещут!

ronatu

На сегодняшний день Японцы и Австралийцы сбросились по $150 млн на строительство около Луны.
Когда жизнь экзаменует - первыми сдают нервы.

Дмитрий Инфан

ЦитироватьКубик написал:
Там и ждут.. И кому такое надо? Своих задач нет, так за хвост амерам цепляться?
Чтобы не цепляться, надо уметь их формулировать. А у нас с этим даже хуже, чем с ПТК.

triage

т.к. встречались вбросы на русском о полном отказе


Цитироватьhttps://spacenews.com/nasa-issues-call-for-proposals-for-human-lunar-landers/
NASA issues call for proposals for human lunar landers
by Jeff Foust — September 30, 2019

WASHINGTON — NASA issued a final version of its call for proposals for a human lunar lander system Sept. 30, giving companies the option to at least initially bypass the lunar Gateway.

The Human Landing System solicitation, part of NASA's Next Space Technologies for Exploration Partnerships (NextSTEP) program, seeks proposals from U.S. companies for the development of human landers. Those proposals are due to NASA Nov. 1.

The final version of the solicitation, formally known as Appendix H, incorporates comments industry provided to an initial draft, published July 19, and a second draft, published Aug. 30. NASA received more than 1,150 comments to the two drafts, the agency said.

Those comments resulted in some modifications intended to streamline the process and give companies more flexibility. One of the biggest is that NASA will no longer require lunar landers to dock with the lunar Gateway to serve as a staging point, at least for initial missions to the lunar surface.

"The agency's preferred approach to a lunar landing is for the crew in the Orion spacecraft and the uncrewed human landing system to launch separately and meet in lunar orbit at the Gateway, which is critical to long-term exploration of the moon," the agency said in a Sept. 30 statement about the solicitation. "NASA wants to explore all options to achieve the 2024 mission and remains open to alternative, innovative approaches."

Marshall Smith, director of NASA's human lunar exploration program at NASA Headquarters, discussed that change at a Sept. 26 meeting of the National Academies' Aeronautics and Space Engineering Board in Irvine, California. "Gateway is essential for 2024," he said, but the solicitation would allow companies to skip it.

"We are allowing contractors, if they want to propose not going to Gateway, they want to propose going directly to an Orion, they can do that for the '24 mission only," he said. "But they have to get to the sustainable case of going to Gateway by 2028."
....

triage

#1473
Цитироватьronatu написал:
На сегодняшний день Японцы и Австралийцы сбросились по $150 млн на строительство около Луны.
японцы даже не сбросились, а только планируют, и даже не утвердили на государственном уровне эти 150 на разные цели на следующий финансовый год.


 ежемесечная пресс конференция президента JAXA (гугло перевод с японского на английский)
Цитироватьhttp://www.jaxa.jp/about/president/presslec/201909_j.html
President's regular press conference > September 2019
2020 Budget Estimate Request
 Regarding the estimated request related to JAXA in 2020, the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology requested a total of approximately 204.5 billion yen, which is the highest in the past 10 years.
...
Спойлер
1つ目は、2024年の有人月着陸に向けて建設される初期型Gatewayのミニ居住棟(Mini-HAB)に提供する機器等を開発するため、約12億円を要求させていただきました
[свернуть]
First, we requested about 1.2 billion yen to develop equipment to be provided for the Mini Gateway (Mini-HAB) of the early gateway that will be built for the manned moon landing in 2024.
...

triage

#1474
Т.к. удаление файла сбросило набранный текст, то без пояснений.

У JAXA и у НАСА есть интересные моменты. Представителя России нету, но в словах представителя НАСА точно звучала, полностью не слушал
Цитировать https://fanfun.jaxa.jp/event/detail/15302.html
 Общедоступная панель Международной группы по исследованию космоса (ISECG) (19/10/4) прямая трансляция
https://youtu.be/nNqkeZ82DJE
 https://youtu.be/nNqkeZ82DJE
 https://www.globalspaceexploration.org/wordpress/

ISECG
[свернуть]
Российская пилотируемая транспортная система


JAXA
[свернуть]


NASA
[свернуть]


ESA
[свернуть]
CSA
[свернуть]
[свернуть]
[свернуть]


Цитироватьhttps://youtu.be/dfOvZygyiCo https://youtu.be/dfOvZygyiCo
Flight of the Gateway and the Power and Propulsion Element | NASA Glenn Research Center
4 окт. 2019 г
In this presentation from our 2019 Evening with the Stars event, NASA engineer Melissa McGuire explains the Gateway and how we'll use it to build our lunar outpost, the cornerstone of NASA's sustainable and reusable Artemis exploration architecture on and around the Moon.

p.s. видео просто оказалось в начале подписок на ютубе, последние месяцы нет желания приводить сообщения по космосу.

triage

Цитироватьhttps://spacenews.com/maxar-dss-rosa-ppe/
Maxar selects Deployable Space Systems to build solar arrays for Gateway's Power and Propulsion Element
by Debra Werner — October 3, 2019

SAN FRANCISCO – Maxar Technologies awarded a contract to Deployable Space Systems to manufacture flexible solar arrays for the Power and Propulsion Element of the Gateway, a key element of NASA's Artemis campaign to return humans to the moon.

DSS announced the contract Oct. 1 for Roll Out Solar Array, or ROSA, a lightweight flexible blanket array the company demonstrated on the International Space Station in 2017. DSS declined to comment on the value of the Maxar contract.

... For the Power and Propulsion Element, DSS plans to manufacture two solar arrays, measuring approximately eight meters by twenty meters. Each array will produce 32.5 kilowatts, he added.
....
https://www.maxar.com
 https://www.dss-space.com

Димитър

Цитироватьfrigate написал:
Просчитал - Ангара А5М сможет вывести к LOP-G не только "Прогресс-Л" (7400 кг) но и транспортный грузовой корабль повышенной грузоподьёмности (ТКГ ПГ) массой 8200 кг,
Frigate, большое спасибо! 

Димитър

ЦитироватьКубик написал:
И кому такое надо? Своих задач нет, так за хвост амерам цепляться?
За деньги, дорогой, за деньги! Предполагается, что за доставки на американской станции будут платить американцы.
А плюс за участие в престижный международный проект мы себе сами поставим! 

triage

ЦитироватьДимитър написал:
За деньги, дорогой, за деньги! Предполагается, что за доставки на американской станции будут платить американцы.
Американцы своими силами справятся так же как и сейчас доставляют грузы на МКС
Цитироватьhttps://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-asks-american-companies-to-deliver-supplies-for-artemis-moon-missions
NASA Asks American Companies to Deliver Supplies for Artemis Moon Missions
Aug. 19, 2019
... The agency is seeking capabilities from American companies to deliver a logistics spacecraft with pressurized and unpressurized cargo to the Gateway ...

triage

Старенькое, тут небыло
Цитироватьhttps://www.nasa.gov/feature/multilateral-coordination-board-joint-statement-august-2019

Aug. 28, 2019
Multilateral Coordination Board Joint Statement
The International Space Station (ISS) Multilateral Coordination Board (MCB) met on August 6, 2019. Its members[1] acknowledged the recent 50th anniversary of the first human steps on the lunar surface during the Apollo 11 mission, praised the ongoing important work of the ISS, and discussed opportunities for the future of human exploration on and around the Moon and forward to Mars.  
Спойлер
Significant outcomes of the ISS continue to include both new scientific knowledge and technical innovation. These advancements address sustainable development on Earth and further preparations to extend human presence farther into the Solar System. More than 100 countries have utilized the space station for research or education. Furthermore, representatives noted with satisfaction that the ISS is nurturing a growing economy in low-Earth orbit research, business and services, and acknowledged new opportunities ISS partners are making available for commercial activities on the ISS enabling sustained and continued exploitation of low-Earth orbit (LEO).

Looking to exploration activities beyond LEO, the MCB members reaffirmed their continued intention to cooperate on a human outpost in the lunar vicinity – Gateway. The partners will continue to develop cooperative opportunities to explore the lunar surface – leading to the exploration of Mars. Both the Gateway and lunar surface work will serve as the proving ground for Mars.

Within a broader open architecture for human exploration, the MCB acknowledged the Gateway as a critical next step. The Gateway will support human and robotic access to the lunar surface, and build invaluable experience needed for the challenges of human missions to Mars. The unique location of the Gateway will offer a platform for important scientific discovery in a deep space environment very different from that of the ISS and help to enable lunar surface exploration. Its special orbit will also provide excellent visibility of both the Earth and the Moon's surface for communications relay purposes. It will stimulate the development of advanced technologies, expand the emerging space economy, and continue to leverage the societal benefits of space exploration for citizens on Earth. The Gateway partnership will enable other international and commercial entities to participate in human exploration, research and technology development and will be foundational for establishing a sustained human presence around and on the Moon.
[свернуть]
The partnership is working to develop a Gateway to enable sustainable ongoing exploration missions, including human lunar landings. NASA has updated its plans for the Utilization Module, now referred to as the Habitation and Logistics Outpost (HALO). The HALO along with the NASA Power and Propulsion Element (PPE), Space Launch System, and Orion spacecraft (including the European Space Agency (ESA)-provided European Service Module) will help enable the Artemis program's plans for a 2024 human lunar landing mission and ensure compatibility and technical capability for the Gateway partnership. The MCB members shared the view that the Gateway will become a sustainable exploration infrastructure supporting further lunar and Mars exploration objectives when additional capabilities are provided through the Gateway partnership.

The members noted their progress regarding respective stakeholders' approval and funding processes for providing specific elements, modules, and capabilities for the Gateway and associated benefits based on a common concept.
Highlights included NASA's selection of a contractor for the first element of the Gateway, the PPE.
The Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology (MEXT) of Japan continues to seek possibilities to provide habitation functions and logistics resupply.
The Canadian Space Agency (CSA) recently launched a formal process seeking interested suppliers for Canadarm3 following the announcement in February 2019 that Canada would participate in the Gateway and contribute advanced robotics including external robotic interfaces and end-to-end external robotics operations.
ESA will seek the approval of its Member States Ministers at the end of November 2019 to provide an international habitation module (I-HAB), enhanced lunar communication, refueling capability, a science airlock, and further Orion service modules.
The State Space Corporation ROSCOSMOS anticipates providing a multi-purpose crew airlock module for Gateway.
Спойлер
The partnership will coordinate to ensure Gateway development continues in a timely manner to realize near and long-term goals, prepare for early utilization activities on Gateway, and consider opportunities for further cooperation related to lunar surface exploration – leading to the exploration of Mars.

Finally, mindful of the ambition and spirit of the Apollo 11 lunar landing, the MCB members affirmed their common hope that the next steps of human exploration will inspire the next generation and provide a sustainable path for exploration to the Moon, Mars, and beyond.
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[1] representing the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, the Canadian Space Agency, the European Space Agency, the Government of Japan's Ministry for Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology, and the State Space Corporation Roscosmos

Last Updated: Aug. 29, 2019